Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/20/1999 03:05 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL
SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 20, 1999
3:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Fred Dyson, Co-Chair
Representative John Coghill, Co-Chair
Representative Jim Whitaker
Representative Joe Green
Representative Tom Brice
Representative Allen Kemplen
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Carl Morgan
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 98
"An Act relating to teacher tenure."
- MOVED SB 98 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 113
"An Act relating to a program of postsecondary education for high
school students."
- HEARD AND HELD
* HOUSE BILL NO. 191
"An Act relating to charter schools; and providing for an effective
date."
- HEARD AND HELD
* HOUSE BILL NO. 115
"An Act relating to the University of Alaska; and providing for an
effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
* HOUSE BILL NO. 195
"An Act relating to school construction grants and to municipal
school construction debt reimbursement."
- HEARD AND HELD
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SB 98
SHORT TITLE: TEACHER TENURE
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) GREEN
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
3/10/99 463 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
3/10/99 463 (S) HES
3/22/99 (S) HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
3/22/99 (S) HEARD AND HELD
3/22/99 (S) MINUTE(HES)
3/29/99 (S) HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
3/29/99 (S) MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE
3/29/99 (S) MINUTE(HES)
3/30/99 (S) RLS AT 11:50 AM FAHRENKAMP 203
3/30/99 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
3/30/99 735 (S) HES RPT 2DP 2NR 1DNP
3/30/99 735 (S) NR: MILLER, PETE KELLY; DP: WILKEN,
3/30/99 735 (S) PEARCE; DNP: ELTON
3/30/99 735 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DOE)
4/07/99 805 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR AND 1 OR 4/7/99
4/07/99 807 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
4/07/99 807 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN
CONSENT
4/07/99 807 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SB 98
4/07/99 807 (S) PASSED Y14 N6
4/07/99 807 (S) ELLIS NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION
4/08/99 828 (S) RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP
4/08/99 829 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
4/09/99 698 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
4/09/99 699 (H) HES
4/20/99 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 113
SHORT TITLE: POSTSECONDARY EDUC FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) MASEK, Dyson
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/24/99 301 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/24/99 301 (H) HES, FIN
4/08/99 694 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DYSON
4/13/99 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
4/13/99 (H) HEARD AND HELD
4/20/99 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 191
SHORT TITLE: CHARTER SCHOOLS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) DYSON, Kohring
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
4/13/99 794 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
4/13/99 794 (H) HES, FIN
4/20/99 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 115
SHORT TITLE: USE OF UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA APPROPRIATION
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) BUNDE
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/24/99 301 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/24/99 302 (H) HES, FINANCE
4/20/99 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 195
SHORT TITLE: SCHOOL GRANT/DEBT REIMBURSEMENT
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) DYSON
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
4/13/99 795 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
4/13/99 795 (H) HES, FIN
4/20/99 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
JEANETTE JEAN, Legislative Administrative Assistant
for Senator Lyda Green
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 125
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-6600
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement for SB 98.
CARL ROSE, Executive Director
Association of Alaska School Boards
316 West 11th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-1083
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 98.
JOHN CYR, President
National Education Association (NEA) Alaska
114 Second Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-3090
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 98.
EDDIE GRASSER, Legislative Assistant
for Representative Beverly Masek
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 432
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3306
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement on HB 113.
BRUCE JOHNSON, Director
Teaching and Learning Support
Department of Education
801 West Tenth Street, Suite 200
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-8689
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 113.
EDDY JEANS, Manager
School Finance Section
Education Support Services
Department of Education
801 West Tenth Street, Suite 200
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2891
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 113.
HARRY ROGERS, Superintendent
Valdez City Schools
P.O. Box 398
Valdez, Alaska 99686
Telephone: (907) 835-4357
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 113.
ROBERT SEWELL, Student Resources Coordinator
University of Alaska Southeast
11120 Glacier Highway
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-6359
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 113.
DARROLL HARGRAVES, Executive Director
Alaska Council of School Administrators
326 Fourth Street, Suite 404
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-9702
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 113.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 99-39, SIDE A
Number 0001
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON called the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:05 p.m. Members
present at the call to order were Representatives Dyson, Coghill,
Whitaker, Green. Representatives Kemplen and Brice joined the
meeting at 3:06 p.m. and 3:07 p.m. respectively.
SB 98 - TEACHER TENURE
Number 130
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON announced the first order of business as Senate
Bill No. 98, "An Act relating to teacher tenure."
Number 0142
JEANETTE JEAN, Legislative Administrative Assistant for Senator
Lyda Green, came forward to present the sponsor statement for SB
98. In 1996, HB 465 was passed pertaining to acquisition of tenure
rights, and it created somewhat of a problem with making tenure
portable. As it turns out, sometimes districts are not hiring
people who would be good teachers in their districts. Because of
their ability to carry their tenure from another district in
Alaska, teachers are not being hired under the current law, because
the districts only have from as late as October 15 to March, when
letters of intent of hire have to go out. That is not enough time
for evaluation, for development of a plan, and for the teacher to
meet the guidelines set in that plan of improvement.
MS. JEAN reported that statistics on a survey done by the
Association of Alaska School Boards (AASB) show that barely over 10
percent of teachers hired last year were teachers with tenure.
According to what they hear from the districts, that is largely due
to those teachers having tenure already. It ties the hand of the
district having such a little bit of time to evaluate and meet any
deficiencies. This legislation takes away the portability of
tenure. Tenure goes back to a three-year-time period so that if
the teacher is hired on the fourth year, he would have tenure with
the new district. If they have a break in service and go back to
the same district, it is only a year to wait for tenure. That is
reasonable because the district knows the teacher.
Number 0376
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wanted to be sure that this only affects the
tenure issue.
MS. JEANS answered that it only addresses the tenure portability.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON commented that he wondered if the reason the
districts were not hiring the tenured teachers was because they
have too many years of service, and their salary schedule is
higher.
MS. JEANS answered that that is possible, but that would also
include tenure which gets them that higher salary. She is sure
that is a factor.
Number 0462
CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School Boards
(AASB), came forward to testify. When they looked at tenure in the
entire context of improving the quality of education back in 1996,
they think they came up with a pretty comprehensive bill. However,
on the floor of the Senate, they included an amendment that
included the portability of tenure. Very little time was taken to
see how this would impact the system, and he believes their survey
shows that the portability of tenure is a hindrance to teachers
wanting to move into urban areas. There is a large turnover in
rural Alaska, and this issue of tenure portability is a hindrance
for them because there is only one year to evaluate them in the new
school.
MR. ROSE noted that as they dealt with HB 465, they wanted to give
as much time and provide some fairness so they said that teachers
hired on or before October 15, would be treated as a full year's
experience. October 15 coupled with March 15, which is when
teachers have to be notified, leaves less than six months. The
decision to grant tenure has to be made in that short time. The
reality is that before school districts take the time to try to
compress this time line, they will simply say, "If this person has
tenure, and we're unsure, then perhaps we will look elsewhere." It
is having an impact on teachers. The opportunity for teachers to
be employed is being restricted.
MR. ROSE referred the committee to the survey in their packet which
shows only about 11 percent of the hires over the last two years
have had tenure. These numbers exclude Anchorage, which in the
last three years has hired 1,100 teachers, and less than 2 percent
of those people had portability. If that is factored in to 523
respondents, it drops that number of 11 percent down below 5
percent. He doesn't believe that teachers are being served by this
provision and urged the committee to support SB 98.
Number 0644
MR. ROSE clarified the record on a letter he sent. He
inadvertently put down that they had to notify tenured and
non-tenured teachers by March 16. That is not true; they don't
have to notify non-tenured teachers. They do have to notify
tenured teachers by March 16.
Number 0671
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE understands that administrators will have to
be "on their toes" with a new teacher, but he believes that after
three or four years, the amount of time is less for the building
administrator to evaluate whether the teacher is competent. He
asked why the building administrator would need another three years
for an experienced teacher; it seems he could make that
determination in a much shorter length of time.
Number 0783
MR. ROSE indicated that Representative Brice raised an important
issue. In many cases, fine teachers get recruited, and the issue
of portability is not a concern in those cases, but it is when they
don't know the people they are hiring. Because of the diversity in
the state, the time spent in one school district successfully does
not necessarily give them an indication of the level of success in
another. A teaching experience in a larger school district is very
different than in a rural school district. To assume that a
positive evaluation in one school district translates to another
doesn't follow. The question has to be whether the administrator
is prepared to take that risk; to take that amount of time to
ensure that this teacher is qualified.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE commented that it is the building
administrator's job to take the time and that risk. He also
believes that the administrators do know who they are hiring; that
is why they are hiring them.
Number 0880
MR. ROSE noted that four years ago no one asked if a teacher had
tenure in the previous community, but now they ask, and as a result
of that, he believes it is restricting the ability of teachers to
get hired. There is a teacher shortage, and they want the ability
to be able to hire people.
Number 0917
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if there is any pressure on districts to be
less than candid in a reference to another district.
MR. ROSE agreed that is a delicate area. "Suffice it to say, you
find a number of good references on paper with a tag line 'If you
have any concerns, please call me.' At that time they may divulge
more information. I think what happens when we go out--in fact
when this portability issue first came up, there was a tag line
that came along that says, 'If portability is going to be allowed
to happen, can we have access to the personnel files?' because that
was a real issue." That creates other concerns. If they are going
to hire someone with tenure, and they are looking for positive
references, they want to be able to see exactly what their
background has been. That is a cloudy area. The issue of
portability because of the conflict that comes with it is a
deterrent in terms of giving a teacher an opportunity to be hired
in another district. It is a difficult area to get a positive
response that is honest because of legal aspects that could come
into play on a bad reference.
Number 1081
JOHN CYR, President, National Education Association (NEA) Alaska,
came forward to testify. He has given the committee quite a bit of
material and their position statement. Previous testimony said HB
465 doesn't allow administrators long enough to look at employees.
It is standard now for districts to ask whether or not people mind
having their personnel file released. He suggested that people
have a look at the personnel files and see the person's evaluation.
MR. CYR referred to AS 14.20.149 which covers school board's
evaluation system for teachers and administrators and noted there
are statewide performance standards in Alaska, and the evaluation
procedures are standardized.
MR. CYR pointed out that if someone has four or five years of
experience and attempts to transfer to another district, that
district really has from the date of hire until the end of that
school year to evaluate the teacher. Teachers are not tenured that
first year. They can do two or more formal evaluations, they can
do informal evaluations, and they can get a good look. If
administrators aren't taking that look, then he submits that they
are not doing their job. They are being paid to evaluate
personnel. Before HB 465, there were three criteria used to let
someone go: Moral turpitude, substantial non-compliance, and
incompetency as defined by case law. To dismiss a teacher under
incompetency is hard. That is gone.
MR. CYR believes the reason tenured teachers are not changing
districts is economic. Some districts like Juneau, Anchorage and
Matanuska-Susitna have no steps. To move into Anchorage with four
or five year's experience, could cost a teacher $15,000 to $20,000.
Very few tenured teachers are willing to do that.
Number 1333
MR. CYR suggested that if it is true that one year isn't enough,
then go back to what it was. They get tenure at the beginning of
the third year whether they change districts or not. As an aside,
he referred to copies of the agreements of other government
contracts, and pointed out that the longest probationary period any
of them have is one year. Teachers have the longest probationary
period of any public employee. He asked the committee to at least
be fair here.
Number 1417
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered if teachers ever get glowing
recommendations just to get rid of them.
Number 1468
MR. CYR said if administrators are giving glowing recommendations
to people who are leaving, he doesn't know if it is the case, and
he hasn't seen it. One of NEA's job is the duty of fair
representation, and they sometimes represent people where there is
some question as to their ability. In those cases, if they just
resign and move on, they don't have a glowing recommendation; they
have a clean file which basically says "This person worked here."
He believes that with 1,500 to 2,000 people at the job fair in
Anchorage looking for jobs, people are hiring the cream of the
crop. They don't need to take a chance. He doesn't know of a
tenured teacher who has come from one district with a good
recommendation and good evaluation who has been unsuccessful. He
isn't saying it hasn't happened, but he can't think of one. They
are doing a much better job policing their ranks. It is much
better since HB 465 was enacted.
Number 1630
The Committee took an at-ease from 3:34 p.m. to 3:35 p.m. to offer
a moment of silence to remember those involved in the tragic
shooting at a high school in Colorado.
Number 1697
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE made a motion to adopt a conceptual amendment
to reduce tenure from three to two years.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked him what line it would be on.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE indicated that it would be a new Section 2.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Ms. Jean how the sponsor, Senator Green,
would respond to that amendment.
Number 1820
MS. JEAN noted that it is important to have the very best working
with our children, so it doesn't seem valid to compare teachers
with other public employees. She believes that the district and
the teacher need the three years for tenure, and that being granted
at the end of the third year or the beginning of the fourth year.
She doesn't believe that Senator Green would see this as a friendly
amendment.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Rose how the AASB would see this
amendment.
Number 1907
MR. ROSE stated that the issue of extending tenure three years was
hotly debated in 1996, but he thought they were dealing with the
issue of portability. The issue of portability has been reduced to
one year, in fact, less than one year, depending on when the hire
takes place. They look at the issue of portability as being highly
restrictive in terms of allowing a teacher to have an opportunity
to seek employment outside their own district. In the context of
portability, he believes that three years is not part of the
discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE responded that portability was discussed in HB
465 as well. He suggested the title of the bill includes teacher
tenure so there is not any type of limitation that they are
discussing here. This way it would be the same for new teachers as
well as tenured teachers moving along.
Number 2015
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL objected to the amendment.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Brice and Kemplen
voted for the amendment. Representatives Whitaker, Green, Coghill
and Dyson voted against it. Therefore, the conceptual amendment
failed by a vote of 4-2.
Number 2024
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL made a motion to move SB 98 from the committee
with individual recommendations and attached zero fiscal note.
Number 2033
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected.
Number 2055
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Brice and Kemplen
voted against moving the bill. Representatives Whitaker, Green,
Coghill and Dyson voted for it. Therefore, SB 98 moved from the
House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee by
a vote of 4-2.
HB 113 - POSTSECONDARY EDUC FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS
Number 2087
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON announced the next order of business as House
Bill No. 113, "An Act relating to a program of postsecondary
education for high school students."
Number 2090
EDDIE GRASSER, Legislative Assistant for Representative Beverly
Masek, came forward and presented another proposed committee
substitute, version I.
Number 2108
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL made a motion to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 113, version 1-LSO461\I, Ford, 4/20/99, as
a work draft. There being no objection, Version I was before the
committee.
The committee took an at-ease from 3:46 p.m. to 3:47 p.m.
Number 2128
MR. GRASSER reviewed the changes in the proposed CS. Page 2,
Section 14.30.760 was changed so all high school students would be
eligible to participate in this program, rather than just students
in the eleventh or twelfth grade. On page 1, line 10, the CS
changes the "shall" to "may" which the committee had adopted
previously. On page 2, Section 14.30.770, it was changed to allow
dual credit in both the high school and college. Several other
changes were made throughout the bill to reflect that language.
His office has discussed with Representative Brice's office about
adding a grade point average (GPA) requirement. The companion bill
in the Senate has a 2.25 GPA required to participate in this
program. Representative Masek didn't incorporate a GPA because
there are areas in the state where there are postsecondary
opportunities that aren't necessarily academic in nature and
provide vocational training. Her thought was that some of the high
school students who may have their basic requirements out of the
way, could opt to go to one of the vocational schools. They may
not need a real high GPA because it is not an academic endeavor.
Number 2249
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE indicated that his school district suggested
that there should be some type of assurance that the student is
capable of taking college-level courses. There are several ways to
address that issue; his approach was a 3.0 GPA which was
recommended by his school district. He agrees they don't want to
prohibit the vocational education programs. His alternative
instead of a 3.0 GPA, would be a 3.0 GPA with the ability of the
building administrator to waive that requirement, or a dual track:
Have one GPA for academic classes and another for vocational
classes.
MR. GRASSER had discussed those thoughts with Representative Masek,
and she would entertain a dual track GPA.
TAPE 99-39, SIDE B
Number 2332
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if they had an amendment for the GPA.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE answered that he had an amendment for the 3.0
GPA, but the dual GPA idea just came up right before the meeting.
He will work on it.
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked for clarification on whether Section 2,
AS 14.03.080(b) is affected by Section 14.30.760(b).
Number 2244
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON replied he didn't believe they were linked.
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked if the school districts make counseling
services regarding the risks and possible consequences would be for
the academic courses.
MR. GRASSER replied yes. He understands that portion provides
counseling services, but it also lets the student know that taking
a class at the university is not quite the same as taking a class
in high school. The idea there is to make sure that the students
understand the differences, risks and problems involved of leaving
the high school structure and entering the university system.
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked if they would compute a ninth grader's
GPA from elementary school.
Number 2085
MR. GRASSER replied that their GPA would be based on their middle
school GPA. In the bill, the district and the university could
decide whether a student would be capable of attending at the
university level through the counseling process.
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL believes that individual recommendation by a
teacher and/or the principal would go a lot further than a GPA in
recognizing ability.
Number 2029
BRUCE JOHNSON, Director, Teaching and Learning Support, Department
of Education (DOE), came forward to testify. He read from a
prepared statement:
The State Board of Education supports this bill and
supports the expansion of educational opportunities for
students. In our estimation, this is a positive concept
that can benefit many students and clearly there is lots
of evidence to suggest that some high school students
clearly are capable of enjoying a positive university
experience while still in high school.
While the initial reading of the bill is obvious where we
have large university campuses in Alaska. We also
believe that this will spur some real creative
opportunities for rural students who may have a more
limited curriculum available to them when they rely only
on local district programming.
Whatever the outcome of this bill or similar bills, we
would encourage the honoring of existing programs that
have occurred in the state. There are many real creative
and significant partnerships between local communities
and their local university that have evolved over many
years. Some are highly unique to their particular
situation, but they are working and therefore we would
hope that you would give some consideration to their
continuance.
Finally, the appropriation that is outlined in the bill
will undoubtedly encourage the expansion of educational
opportunities for students. Because there is an
indication an appropriation would be forthcoming, we
suspect that local school districts will support this
concept to the extent that tuition is available through
the reimbursement out of the foundation program. We hope
that is a correct reading of the bill, and that there
would be an appropriation that would be available to the
department or local school districts.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if there is a fiscal note with this bill.
Number 1926
EDDY JEANS, Manager, School Finance Section, Education Support
Services, Department of Education, came forward to testify. In
their analysis of HB 113, they do believe that this will require a
separate appropriation to fund this program. Those monies would
then be allocated out to the school districts under this program.
They have prepared an asterisked fiscal note which is not a zero
fiscal note; it means there are some costs associated with this
program, but at this point in time, the department doesn't have the
information to project what that cost would be.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON assumed that it will be difficult to estimate,
but he suspects there might be a commensurate reduction in adult
basic education (ABE) needs or a reduction in the university's
needs for putting these courses on. He asked when the DOE thought
they could get a handle on the costs.
Number 1858
MR. JEANS answered he is not sure how they would go about it.
Under HB 113, clearly it would require a legislative appropriation
under 14.30.790 which refers to funding for school districts and
says "Subject to appropriation and in addition to funding received
under AS 14.17," which is the foundation program that the monies
would be made available to school districts under 14.30.790 so they
would be establishing a new program that would require its own
independent appropriation. He is sure they could come up with a
starting point to implement the program, but he couldn't tell them
how accurate it would be. They don't know how many high school
students would be interested in participating in this program.
The Committee took an at-ease from 4:08 p.m. to 4:12 p.m.
Number 1797
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON announced they would rework HB 113 and vote on it
on Thursday.
Number 1778
HARRY ROGERS, Superintendent, Valdez City Schools, came forward to
testify and to agree with the intent of HB 113. After listening to
the testimony from last week, he heard some things and was
concerned that something in HB 113 may affect what they are already
doing. In Valdez, they are effectively blurring the line between
high school and college. They have a partnership with Prince
William Sound Community College, and it has worked very well, but
it is still a fragile relationship. They are concerned that there
are some things in the bill that could affect that. They have
about 229 students in their grades 9 through 12 high school. Out
of those 229, 104 of them are taking some college credit classes,
even some freshman. Those 104 students will earn 935 hours of
college credit this year. He will have the opportunity to hand
diplomas to high school students who will be sophomores in college
when they pick up that diploma. It has been an excellent program.
MR. ROGERS expressed concern about the GPA requirement. He
referred the committee to an envelope that was handed out which
contains five descriptions of their two-year certificate programs.
The students who take these courses are more of the vocational kind
of student. The students can get half of the programs required for
this two-year certificate while they are in high school. This may
be the strongest part of their program because there are students
in those programs who are not college bound. When they graduate
from high school, they have half a college certificate and have
gained confidence to return to the college and complete the
program. They would be concerned if the committee started limiting
who can take the courses.
Number 1648
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Rogers how they tell a student that it
is not appropriate for him to take a college course.
Number 1641
MR. ROGERS answered that every student works with an advisor, most
likely a guidance counselor in the school, and it is through that
advice that they participate in the courses. He told the committee
that if they asked the high school principal what the best part of
this program is, he would say it is getting some students that
probably aren't good students, and maybe aren't ready for school,
and getting them involved in some of these programs, and they are
college students when they get through.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON commented that they probably have the other side
of that: Bright students who are bored in high school, and they
get challenged by the advanced work.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN believes this is right on the edge of where
they need to go with the education system.
Number 1516
MR. ROGERS pointed out the list of academic classes available, and
there are about 80 hours of credit available to their students.
The most important ingredient in this program is that all of these
college courses are offered on their campus, in their schedule.
Those two things need to happen for a program to grow. That is
where the delicate relationship comes in because there are lots of
turfs involved, when college teachers start coming onto a high
school campus and teaching or high school teachers becoming adjunct
faculty teaching college courses in the high school. They have
done a good job of meshing that partnership.
Number 1460
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked if there is a temptation to speed over
some of the high school courses to get to the good courses in
college or is that an issue.
MR. ROGERS didn't believe that was an issue. As this program has
evolved, they have found some seniors who have gotten into college
level courses so heavily and realized they have gone too far. He
believes that is a learning experience too. They have emphasized
with their instructors that these classes have to be college level.
Number 1354
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked Mr. Rogers if there is a set model in
the state that is implemented to allow college courses.
MR. ROGERS answered that there are some places doing similar things
to what they are doing, but the relationship is going to have to be
unique with the partner, and that may not be the same. He believes
most schools approach it in their own way.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Rogers if it will be a problem for him
if the older students return to the high school to finish their
high school education.
Number 1257
MR. ROGERS answered that he is concerned about it, but the change
of "shall" to "may" has helped. He is not sure how they will
address the issue of older students having access to the school.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if Valdez has an active adult basic
education (ABE) program.
Number 1221
MR. ROGERS confirmed that the ABE program at Prince William Sound
Community College will have as many graduates this year as Valdez
High School. The ABE program includes Glennallen and Cordova.
Number 1200
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON sees Section 2 of HB 113 allowing a school to
blur the lines between adult basic education and the high school,
if they chose.
MR. ROGERS prefers that the funding go to the ABE program, but
doesn't think Section 2 of HB 113 is unmanageable.
Number 1156
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked those who have concerns with HB 113 to work
things out to revise this bill, and they will take this bill up
again on Thursday.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE believes it will come down to whether there
should be some standard for a student to participate in the
program. He noted that Valdez uses a counseling screening process.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON also asked Mr. Jeans to work on the funding end
of this. It was not the intention of the sponsors of the bill to
have a separate line item appropriation.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN believes that allowing the governing bodies to
make their own standards is a good idea. He asked Mr. Rogers if
the difference between a community college teacher and a high
school teacher is because they can't find, in some cases, qualified
high school teachers to teach that subject, or does the
postsecondary school require their own professors for certain
classes.
Number 0965
MR. ROGERS answered it is probably some of both. They try to get
the high school instructor approved as adjunct faculty because then
the students can take the course for only a $15 registration fee.
If the college instructor comes onto the high school campus, then
the students pay the $180 tuition for three credits. However, they
have a scholarship program in place so that no student is denied.
How they fund the appropriation is the key. If all of a sudden the
school district has to start paying, it is over. They have 1,000
hours of college credit, and it would be giving them a bill for
$50,000 to $100,000. The wording of that is critical, and he
believes that they have worked it out in Valdez.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON mentioned that he believed Representative Brice
raised the point the other day about the physical capacity in
Section 2 conforming with the Americans for Disabilities Act, but
he didn't see it in this version. He asked him to work on that
also.
Number 0805
MR. CYR supports this bill but after hearing the discussion he has
become worried that the funding will come from education budgets
that are already sliced too thin. This bill needs to be funded
from the state level.
Number 0612
ROBERT SEWELL, Student Resources Coordinator, University of Alaska
Southeast, came forward to testify and is delighted that they are
considering HB 113. He pointed out page 2, line 3 where it
mentions receiving an eleventh or twelfth grade education. It is
not their experience that that level of experience is necessary.
He doesn't believe this legislation means to exclude an able
learner who is younger than eleventh grade. He recommends that the
phrase "eleventh and twelfth grade" be struck and substitute
"secondary education."
DR. SEWELL suggested striking the section "equivalent of one school
year" on page 2, line 15 and let it be an advising issue.
Number 0280
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Grasser what they intended on lines
14-15.
MR. GRASSER answered it deals with the different credit systems
between schools. For example, in high school a student gets one
credit per semester and in college a student gets three credits.
Number 0207
DR. SEWELL suggested lines 14-15 be rephrased to make that clear.
TAPE 99-40, SIDE A
[Due to a tape malfunction, the following testimony was
reconstructed from log notes and written testimony.]
DR. SEWELL suggested that Sec. 14.30.780 (b) be struck on page 3
because for one thing, they don't have quarter credits. He
suggested they substitute similar wording to the proposed
memorandum of agreement between the Juneau School District (JSD)
and the University of Alaska Southeast: "Payment of Costs A.
Tuition - the cost of tuition and the associated expenses of fees
and books will be paid by JSD upon billing by UAS following
Semester Week - 3."
DR. SEWELL is not sure of the intent of page 4, line 14 and
suggested that that be revisited. He doesn't believe they would
want to charge the students for disability support services, for
example.
DARROLL HARGRAVES, Executive Director, Alaska Council of School
Administrators, came forward to testify. He supports the concept
of HB 113 and agrees with Mr. Roger's testimony. He would like to
see the bill reduced to one and a half pages. He provided the
following points:
Sec. 2
This is acceptable. The important thing is to allow
local districts to make the decision about how over-age
students attend. When these students attend they should
be counted in the enrollment count with regular students
and qualified to generate foundation funding for the
school district.
Sec. 14.30.760.
Let local schools and the postsecondary institution
determine the requirements for allowing secondary
students to enroll in courses that can be allowed for
both secondary and postsecondary credit. No grade point
or grade level needs to be in statute.
Delete paragraph (b). Local situations can
determine the level of counseling and advising to be
included in the program.
Paragraph (c) is acceptable but delete point number
(2).
Paragraph (d) is acceptable.
Sec. 14.30.770. Calculation of academic credit.
This entire section should be deleted to allow local
schools and the University to apply their policies. A
three-credit semester course at the University based on the
Carnegie Unit generally would be accepted by a local school
district to be worth one half of a math credit to apply toward
graduation.
Sec. 14.30.780. Funding for postsecondary institutions.
Delete this section and add something like:
The school district shall pay the tuition
established by the University for any classes in which
secondary students enroll for dual credit subject to
reimbursement by the Department of Education.
Nothing in this law prohibits a school district and
the University of Alaska from entering into local agreements
to provide courses and programs with terms and conditions to
which they mutually agree.
Sec. 14.30.790. Funding for school districts.
Delete this section and add something like:
Subject to appropriations and in addition to funding
received under AS 14.17, the department shall make payments to
reimburse districts for university tuition payments made by
the school district for students in dual enrollment courses.
Sec. 14.30.800. Prohibited financial aid and fees.
This section is acceptable.
Sec. 14.30.380. Definitions.
In definition number 2 change "nationally accredited" to
"regionally accredited".
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Wendy Redman from the university about
changing "nationally accredited" to "regionally accredited."
WENDY REDMAN agreed in this instance that it should be changed.
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON announced they will keep working on this bill to
address all the concerns and suspended the hearing on HB 113. [HB
113 was held over.]
HB 191 - CHARTER SCHOOLS
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON announced the next order of business as House
Bill No. 191, "An Act relating to charter schools; and providing
for an effective date." He indicated that HB 191 would be held
over for further hearing.
HB 115 - USE OF UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA APPROPRIATION
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON announced the next order of business as House
Bill No. 115, "An Act relating to the University of Alaska; and
providing for an effective date." He indicated that HB 115 would
be held over for further hearing.
HB 195 - SCHOOL GRANT/DEBT REIMBURSEMENT
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON announced the next order of business as House
Bill No. 195, "An Act relating to school construction grants and to
municipal school construction debt reimbursement." He indicated
that HB 195 would be held over for further hearing.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting
was adjourned at 4:58 p.m.
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